The Forza Family: A Brief Opinion

"Kake Bake" (kakebake) 09/12/2014 at 16:31 • Filed to: forza

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I think I'd like Horizon to overtake Motorsport in popularity. Then T10 can stop pretending they make a simulator and put all of their talent to use making Horizon with PG. Call it sour grapes, but I want Motorsport to either stop or change devs.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Kake Bake 09/12/2014 at 16:40

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But then xbox wouldnt have anything close to a simulator at all. That could cost sales.

ACESandEIGHTS > Kake Bake 09/12/2014 at 16:40

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I wish they'd break free of the MS-exclusive reign.

But about your statement... are you just not enjoying FM anymore? Or do you actually like Horizon better? Last time out, I thought Forza 4 beat Horizon hands down, but it looks like the tables will turn on this go-'round. And it's a damned shame 'cause I doubt I'll buy an XBone for several years until design/hardware/optimization issues shake out.

Kake Bake > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 09/12/2014 at 16:54

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It doesn't now.

Also, I'm not convinced Motorsport is a major feature for Xbone. Most of 5's sales came from being packaged with the 'Bone. What's more, the attention it got at launch was only because it had no other competition.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Kake Bake 09/12/2014 at 17:02

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I agree that it's gotten too arcadey but Xbox likes to cater to more casual gamers than PC/PS so it can't be pure sim like iRacing and such. But I feel it still has it's place, I'd buy it if I had an xbox 1. Horizon and motorsport share assets anyways and I imagine different teams work on each. Whats more forza 5 is cut down to make launch date, 6 will be more comprehensive and complete.

Kake Bake > ACESandEIGHTS 09/12/2014 at 17:05

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Maybe it is MS fouling it up for them. If T10 had longer than 2 years to make each entry, maybe their games would be of better quality and not smack so insultingly of corners cut and assets reused.

It's just that, to me, FM isn't well-researched or well-curated enough to be a simulator and it isn't fun enough to be an arcade racer.

Horizon does what FM can't and is the better series for it in my opinion.

Pessimippopotamus > Kake Bake 09/12/2014 at 17:10

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Hell no. I might be inclined to agree to that if Horizon adds real circuits and drops the grating premise for the games. And rid itself of the graphics designer and the music director, because it is tacky .

Kake Bake > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 09/12/2014 at 17:12

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FM6 won't be comprehensive or complete if T10 keep ignoring the trappings of Motorsport—which it seems should be a big deal for them.

Physics aside, I think the option for pit strategy, qualifying and some sort of flag system should be included alongside the options that make the game easier.

Otherwise change the name to Forza Track Day Challenge and call it a day.

Kake Bake > Pessimippopotamus 09/12/2014 at 17:19

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Horizon may be tacky, but you can always turn the HUD and music off and skip the cutscenes (although you couldn't skip them in H1). I agree that circuits in Horizon would be great. Then it would really be the PGR sequel we've been waiting for.

djmt1 > Kake Bake 09/12/2014 at 17:43

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Nope. FM5 sold (excluding pack ins) just short of 2 million units. Apart from Forza 1, all the other games have broken 5 million units plus the franchise is the highest rated racing franchise ever so there is no way in hell Microsoft are gonna pull the plug on either T10 or Forza Motorsport. It is about as likely as Sony pulling the plug on GT just because GT6 had dismal sales (for a GT game).

Also as to whether or not Horizon will overtake Motorsport, the answer is pretty much nope. Now fortunately for me as an arcade racing fan, Horizon is going no where as Forza is now annualised (it really shouldn't be, 18 months isn't enough time) and it has the backing of Microsoft unlimited wallets but the market for arcade racers is dire. Even the mighty NFS has been suffering with arcade racers rarely breaking the million sales target. Only Horizon 1 has of recent times. There clearly isn't an interest in arcade racers which is annoying and depressing because they are great.

This year should be interesting with Driveclub, FH2 and The Crew coming out but I predict The Crew to be a major flop commercially. Horzion 2 should be fine as it is first party but Driveclub is in a sticky situation as it is being offered partially for free so converting those players to customers will a tough sell for a game lacking content such as Driveclub.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Kake Bake 09/12/2014 at 17:48

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I dont think those are all neccessary to call it a sim, great physics are enough for many including me. If it simulates a track day well then it's a simulator. Arcade games are arcade because they dont represent how an actuall car would react in those situations.

Kake Bake > djmt1 09/12/2014 at 18:05

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Yeah, I get what you're saying. I mean, I know none of this will happen, but I just think Horizon offers so much more value than Motorsport.

I guess I was trying to say what you said about wanting the audience for arcade racers to be bigger. Horizon deserves to be more than an offshoot of the FM series.

Kake Bake > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 09/12/2014 at 18:17

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That's true, but T10 presents FM as a racing simulator, which it objectively isn't.

I guess my issue boils down to semantics. The first two games of the series were motorsport-lite games and because of that, the series has been stuck with the expectation of having motorsport-lite qualities.

The reality is that real autocross, championships, split times and qualifying aren't what T10/MS think can sell a game so you have a track day game stuck with Motorsport in the name.

djmt1 > Kake Bake 09/12/2014 at 18:19

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It is now. Horizon gets the same amount of attention from Microsoft now that the series has been annualised possibly more since the Forza film (yup there have been discussions) is based on Horizon and not Motorsport (finally something to go up against the filmic masterpiece that was Need for Speed).

Motorsport is in a weird situation. FM4 was a really big game for something made in 18 months and FM5 was screwed over by being both a launch title and Microsoft's constantly changing ideologies.

However I'm very optimistic about FM6. Sure they only have 18 months to build it again but they essentially have two teams working on it as so much is shared between Motorsport and Horizon. Plus the big switch to laser scanning will mean they can bring forward all of FM5's content without suffering the problems that the GT series has faced. FM6 really will be an interesting look at the franchise's future as will be GT7.

GT and FM are pretty unique among sims and I find the constant comparison to other sims like Project Cars, iRacing and Asseto Corsa to be so stupid. Those kind of games focus so much on the racing where as GT and FM focus more on the cars and what you can do with them be it drifting or drag racing if anything they're more like sandboxes.

Still this might be the year that Forza will be killed thanks to Project Cars (according to Youtube). Spoiler: I've played a lot of Project Cars, it won't. It will kill off Grid though.

Local Miata Bro > Kake Bake 09/12/2014 at 19:33

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YOU SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH

JDIGGS > Kake Bake 10/02/2014 at 18:37

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I don't really see what value it offers besides a a social media style platform. The driving physics are worse, the graphics are worse. The driving is simply not as fun, I rather go drift or fishtail around in Forza 5. I love cars and racing, not bullshitting around.

Forza 5 has a lot more value imo because simply put it teaches people the art of racing, and the history of many famous tracks and locations. This should be a requirement for someone who is into cars and thinks going fast is cool, yet doesn't take the time or patience to learn a thing about what all these cars they worship were actual meant for and how they work. Instead Horizon 2 is a bunch of chaos with mediocre graphics made for millennials by Playground studios, solely as an offset to gain extra capital with minimal effort for Turn 10.

Kake Bake > JDIGGS 10/02/2014 at 19:50

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Yeah, Horizon's story is bad, but I think as a game it's more honest than Motorsport. All of Horizon's promotional media sell it as a fun distraction, while FM is presented as a serious racing simulator.

Objectively, FM isn't that. It approaches a simulation of the properties of individual cars but not within the context of a sanctioned event. It doesn't have flags, penalties, cautions, restarts or pit strategy. It's a track day game. Forza Motorsport is just Forza Horizon on closed circuits.